{"thread":{"id":"10392","subject":"[PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","startedAt":"2007-10-20T08:24:31Z","lastAt":"2007-10-24T00:28:18Z","messageCount":16,"participants":["Jari Aalto","Johannes Schindelin","Shawn O. Pearce","Jeff King","Yin Ping","Wincent Colaiuta","Jan Hudec","Andreas Ericsson","Salikh Zakirov"],"isPatch":true,"patchVersion":1,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"56681","messageId":"bqaujirk.fsf@blue.sea.net","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Jari Aalto","fromEmail":"jari.aalto@cante.net","sentAt":"2007-10-20T08:24:31Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-20T08:24:31Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"jari.aalto@cante.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34601?v=4"},"body":"- commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n- Send error message to stderr, not stdout.\n\nSigned-off-by: Jari Aalto \n---\n help.c | 4 ++--\n 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n\ndiff --git a/help.c b/help.c\nindex 1cd33ec..dc9e59f 100644\n--- a/help.c\n+++ b/help.c\n@@ -185,8 +185,8 @@ static void show_man_page(const char *git_cmd)\n \n void help_unknown_cmd(const char *cmd)\n {\n-\tprintf(\"git: '%s' is not a git-command\\n\\n\", cmd);\n-\tlist_common_cmds_help();\n+\tfprintf(stderr, \"git: '%s' is not a git-command. See --help\\n\\n\", cmd);\n+ /* list_common_cmds_help(); */\n \texit(1);\n }\n \n-- \n1.5.3.2.81.g17ed\n\nWelcome to FOSS revolution: we fix and modify until it shines\n"},{"id":"56730","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710202126430.25221@racer.site","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"bqaujirk.fsf@blue.sea.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-10-20T20:28:50Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-20T20:28:50Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n\n> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n\nIf you're really sure that this is desired, do not comment it out. Delete \nit.\n\nBut am not at all sure that this is the way to go. Rather, I like it that \nthe most common commands are listed. It would be better to find out what \ncommands are really the most helpful to users who are likely to benefit \nfrom the list, and to present them better (such as showing them in \ncategories).\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"56722","messageId":"odetifoh.fsf@blue.sea.net","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710202126430.25221@racer.site","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Jari Aalto","fromEmail":"jari.aalto@cante.net","sentAt":"2007-10-20T22:28:46Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-20T22:28:46Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"jari.aalto@cante.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34601?v=4"},"body":"* Sat 2007-10-20 Johannes Schindelin INBOX\n> Hi,\n>\n> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n>\n>> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n>\n> If you're really sure that this is desired, do not comment it out. Delete \n> it.\n\nI'm sure.\n\nThere is no point of reminding *every* time you make a typo during\nwriting the commands. It fills half of the screen and obscures the\nprevious commands that were running. It's much more polite and elegant\nin shorted form.\n\nJari\n\nNew patch follows.\n\n-- \nWelcome to FOSS revolution: we fix and modify until it shines\n"},{"id":"56740","messageId":"ir51if2y.fsf@blue.sea.net","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"bqaujirk.fsf@blue.sea.net","subject":"[PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option","fromName":"Jari Aalto","fromEmail":"jari.aalto@cante.net","sentAt":"2007-10-20T22:41:41Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-20T22:41:41Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"jari.aalto@cante.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34601?v=4"},"body":"\n- Remove out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n- Send error message to stderr, not stdout.\n\nSigned-off-by: Jari Aalto \n---\n help.c | 3 +--\n 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n\ndiff --git a/help.c b/help.c\nindex 1cd33ec..814a8cd 100644\n--- a/help.c\n+++ b/help.c\n@@ -185,8 +185,7 @@ static void show_man_page(const char *git_cmd)\n \n void help_unknown_cmd(const char *cmd)\n {\n-\tprintf(\"git: '%s' is not a git-command\\n\\n\", cmd);\n-\tlist_common_cmds_help();\n+\tfprintf(stderr, \"git: '%s' is not a git-command. See --help\\n\\n\", cmd);\n \texit(1);\n }\n \n-- \n1.5.3.2.81.g17ed\n"},{"id":"56726","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710210001390.25221@racer.site","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"odetifoh.fsf@blue.sea.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-10-20T23:02:30Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-20T23:02:30Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sun, 21 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n\n> * Sat 2007-10-20 Johannes Schindelin INBOX\n>\n> > On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n> >\n> >> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n> >\n> > If you're really sure that this is desired, do not comment it out. Delete \n> > it.\n> \n> I'm sure.\n\nWell, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of the Git \nSurvey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch would \nonly make this issue worse.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"56732","messageId":"20071021020653.GA14735@spearce.org","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710210001390.25221@racer.site","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2007-10-21T02:06:53Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T02:06:53Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > > On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n> > >\n> > >> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n> \n> Well, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of the Git \n> Survey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch would \n> only make this issue worse.\n\nActually I think Jari's patch helps for the reason originally\nstated in the message (less output when you make a small typo).\nThough I agree that the commented out code should just be removed.\n\nI actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\nmyself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\nme a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n\nHmm. Lets see.\n\n \"cvs foo\":\n Big spew of commands. Like \"git foo\".\n\n \"svn foo\":\n Unknown command: 'foo'\n Type 'svn help' for usage.\n\nBoth are considered to be more newbie friendly then Git. So clearly\nSVN's output of almost nothing is friendly. And so is CVS'\nbig spew of frequently used commands. Either way is apparently\nnewbie friendly.\n\nThough I find SVN's message a little insulting, asking me to type.\nI know I have to type the command, thanks.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"56741","messageId":"20071021032427.GB8545@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021020653.GA14735@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2007-10-21T03:24:27Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T03:24:27Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 10:06:53PM -0400, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n\n> I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n> myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n> me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n\nYeah, somebody should really work on bash completion...\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"56743","messageId":"20071021032953.GC14735@spearce.org","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021032427.GB8545@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2007-10-21T03:29:53Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T03:29:53Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King wrote:\n> On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 10:06:53PM -0400, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> \n> > I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n> > myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n> > me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n> \n> Yeah, somebody should really work on bash completion...\n\n $ git pu\n pull push\n\nBy the time I type out \"pus\" and hit tab I've already typed out\nthe name \"push \". Except I frequently find myself getting the\nu before the p, which can't complete. Of course with the above\nalias in place \"git u\" completes out uniquely to \"git push \"\n(between bash completion and the alias expansion).\n\nBut that alias isn't there for my bash tab completion. Its there\nexactly because otherwise \"git upsh\" gives me 31 lines of useless\n(to me) output without it.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"56744","messageId":"20071021033318.GD14735@spearce.org","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"ir51if2y.fsf@blue.sea.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2007-10-21T03:33:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T03:33:18Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jari Aalto wrote:\n> - Remove out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n\nEven if the list is against this change (which I'm in favor of)... \n\n> - Send error message to stderr, not stdout.\n\nI really think this really should be done. CVS and SVN both print\nto stderr in this case, as does any other program I can think of\nthat takes subcommands. Its just the right thing to do.\n\n> @@ -185,8 +185,7 @@ static void show_man_page(const char *git_cmd)\n> \n> void help_unknown_cmd(const char *cmd)\n> {\n> -\tprintf(\"git: '%s' is not a git-command\\n\\n\", cmd);\n> -\tlist_common_cmds_help();\n> +\tfprintf(stderr, \"git: '%s' is not a git-command. See --help\\n\\n\", cmd);\n\nWhy are you still printing two LFs here? We have no additional\ntext to display after this error message, we probably only need\nthe one LF.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"56751","messageId":"46dff0320710202333g70b022f4r6574e93aa0463065@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021032953.GC14735@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Yin Ping","fromEmail":"pkufranky@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-10-21T06:33:26Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T06:33:26Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"pkufranky@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/5346?v=4"},"body":"On 10/21/07, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jeff King wrote:\n> > On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 10:06:53PM -0400, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> >\n> > > I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n> > > myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n> > > me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n> >\n> > Yeah, somebody should really work on bash completion...\n>\n> $ git pu\n> pull push\n>\n> By the time I type out \"pus\" and hit tab I've already typed out\n> the name \"push \". Except I frequently find myself getting the\n> u before the p, which can't complete. Of course with the above\n> alias in place \"git u\" completes out uniquely to \"git push \"\n> (between bash completion and the alias expansion).\n>\n> But that alias isn't there for my bash tab completion. Its there\n> exactly because otherwise \"git upsh\" gives me 31 lines of useless\n> (to me) output without it.\n>\n\n\nMy way to resolve this is to define some alias begenning with 'gt' for\nfrequently used commands, such as 'gtps -> git-push, gtpl ->\ngit-pull, gtco->git-checkout, gtci->git-commit, gtbr->git-branch'.\nso that when i type 'gt', only commands that i frequently use are\nlisted.\n\n\n-- \nfranky\n"},{"id":"56758","messageId":"ED3FFB7A-861F-47E4-97EA-D7A05552FC2C@wincent.com","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021020653.GA14735@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Wincent Colaiuta","fromEmail":"win@wincent.com","sentAt":"2007-10-21T08:58:56Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T08:58:56Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"greg@hurrell.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/7074?v=4"},"body":"El 21/10/2007, a las 4:06, Shawn O. Pearce escribió:\n\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n>>>>\n>>>>> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n>>\n>> Well, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of \n>> the Git\n>> Survey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch \n>> would\n>> only make this issue worse.\n>\n> Actually I think Jari's patch helps for the reason originally\n> stated in the message (less output when you make a small typo).\n> Though I agree that the commented out code should just be removed.\n>\n> I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n> myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n> me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n\nIf you want to go really user friendly, how about a check against the \nlist of known commands using a shortest-edit distance algorithm?\n\n Unknown command: 'upsh': did you mean 'push'?\n Type 'git help' for usage.\n\nHere's just one of many articles introducing the shortest-edit idea, \nas popularized by Google:\n\n \n\nWhat do you think?\n\nCheers,\nWincent\n"},{"id":"56765","messageId":"20071021100921.GD8887@efreet.light.src","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021033318.GD14735@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option","fromName":"Jan Hudec","fromEmail":"bulb@ucw.cz","sentAt":"2007-10-21T10:09:21Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T10:09:21Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"bulb@ucw.cz","avatar":null},"body":"On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 23:33:18 -0400, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jari Aalto wrote:\n> > - Remove out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n> \n> Even if the list is against this change (which I'm in favor of)... \n\nI didn't get the impression that the _whole_ list is against. I think that\nthe rather longish list should only be shown for 'git help' and when no\ncommand was specified (but that is handled by implying help, so this change\ndoes not apply to that case), so I am in favor of this.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t Jan 'Bulb' Hudec \n"},{"id":"56769","messageId":"471B4931.5040102@op5.se","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"ED3FFB7A-861F-47E4-97EA-D7A05552FC2C@wincent.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2007-10-21T12:42:25Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T12:42:25Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Wincent Colaiuta wrote:\n> El 21/10/2007, a las 4:06, Shawn O. Pearce escribió:\n> \n>> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n>>>>>\n>>>>>> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n>>>\n>>> Well, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of the \n>>> Git\n>>> Survey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch would\n>>> only make this issue worse.\n>>\n>> Actually I think Jari's patch helps for the reason originally\n>> stated in the message (less output when you make a small typo).\n>> Though I agree that the commented out code should just be removed.\n>>\n>> I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n>> myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n>> me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n> \n> If you want to go really user friendly, how about a check against the \n> list of known commands using a shortest-edit distance algorithm?\n> \n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance\n\nImplementing the algorithm doesn't seem terribly difficult.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"56771","messageId":"20071021131351.GE8887@efreet.light.src","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"471B4931.5040102@op5.se","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Jan Hudec","fromEmail":"bulb@ucw.cz","sentAt":"2007-10-21T13:13:51Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T13:13:51Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"bulb@ucw.cz","avatar":null},"body":"On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 14:42:25 +0200, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> Wincent Colaiuta wrote:\n>> El 21/10/2007, a las 4:06, Shawn O. Pearce escribió:\n>>> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n>>>>\n>>>> Well, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of the \n>>>> Git\n>>>> Survey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch would\n>>>> only make this issue worse.\n>>>\n>>> Actually I think Jari's patch helps for the reason originally\n>>> stated in the message (less output when you make a small typo).\n>>> Though I agree that the commented out code should just be removed.\n>>>\n>>> I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n>>> myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n>>> me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n>> If you want to go really user friendly, how about a check against the list \n>> of known commands using a shortest-edit distance algorithm?\n>\n> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance\n>\n> Implementing the algorithm doesn't seem terribly difficult.\n\nThat's not the correct algorithm (you need to consider transpozitions, so you\nneed at least http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damerau-Levenshtein_distance, but\nI would not think that's the easier, or faster, way to do it. Though this\nwould have to be benchmarked -- calculating the edit distance is quadratic,\nwhile generating the list of possibilities (and seeing whether they exist) is\nlinear, but with large constant. So the question is, whether we have few\nenough commands that the quadratic calculation might be faster.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t Jan 'Bulb' Hudec \n"},{"id":"56772","messageId":"471B5F7A.6010303@op5.se","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021131351.GE8887@efreet.light.src","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2007-10-21T14:17:30Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-21T14:17:30Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Jan Hudec wrote:\n> On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 14:42:25 +0200, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n>> Wincent Colaiuta wrote:\n>>> El 21/10/2007, a las 4:06, Shawn O. Pearce escribió:\n>>>> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jari Aalto wrote:\n>>>>>>>\n>>>>>>>> - commented out call to list_common_cmds_help()\n>>>>> Well, I'm almost sure of the opposite. One of the big results of the \n>>>>> Git\n>>>>> Survey was that git is still not user-friendly enough. Your patch would\n>>>>> only make this issue worse.\n>>>> Actually I think Jari's patch helps for the reason originally\n>>>> stated in the message (less output when you make a small typo).\n>>>> Though I agree that the commented out code should just be removed.\n>>>>\n>>>> I actually had to do `git config alias.upsh push` just to keep\n>>>> myself from screaming every time I made a small typo and Git gave\n>>>> me a screenful of \"helpful reminders\".\n>>> If you want to go really user friendly, how about a check against the list \n>>> of known commands using a shortest-edit distance algorithm?\n>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance\n>>\n>> Implementing the algorithm doesn't seem terribly difficult.\n> \n> That's not the correct algorithm (you need to consider transpozitions, so you\n> need at least http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damerau-Levenshtein_distance, but\n> I would not think that's the easier, or faster, way to do it. Though this\n> would have to be benchmarked -- calculating the edit distance is quadratic,\n> while generating the list of possibilities (and seeing whether they exist) is\n> linear, but with large constant. So the question is, whether we have few\n> enough commands that the quadratic calculation might be faster.\n> \n\nIt's intended to be used for strings of length 3-14, run through once when the\nuser has given bogus input. We're not gonna index databases here. Simplicity\nin the implementation almost certainly outweighs the performance penalty of\ndoing it the stupid way.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"57042","messageId":"471E91A2.5010001@gmail.com","threadId":"10392","inReplyTo":"20071021020653.GA14735@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [PATCH] On error, do not list all commands, but point to --help option.","fromName":"Salikh Zakirov","fromEmail":"salikh@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-10-24T00:28:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-24T00:28:18Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"salikh@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/952c102bb1dcf721dab8de4f5a11d276756a65d301d021f755e265cc3251efae?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Hmm. Lets see.\n> \n> \"cvs foo\":\n> Big spew of commands. Like \"git foo\".\n> \n> \"svn foo\":\n> Unknown command: 'foo'\n> Type 'svn help' for usage.\n> \n> Both are considered to be more newbie friendly then Git. So clearly\n> SVN's output of almost nothing is friendly. And so is CVS'\n> big spew of frequently used commands. Either way is apparently\n> newbie friendly.\n> \n> Though I find SVN's message a little insulting, asking me to type.\n> I know I have to type the command, thanks.\n\nOn the contrary, I consider CVS and current Git output more insulting,\nas it assumes I forgot all the commands every time I made a typo.\n\nThe polite part of the message is to point out a typo, \nas \"Unknown command 'foo'\" above. The \"Type \"svn help\" for usage\" part\nis just a reminder for complete newbies, which doesn't take too much space\nand can be reasonably ignored by experienced users.\n"}]}